Resilience and Transformation: Terry Tucker's Journey from SWAT Negotiator to Cancer Warrior on The Patrick Bass Show

What if you could draw inner strength from extreme adversity and use it to transform your life? Join us as we sit down with Terry Tucker, a former SWAT hostage negotiator, author, and cancer warrior, who shares the powerful lessons he's learned from a remarkable 12-year battle with cancer and a storied career in law enforcement. Terry’s journey is a testament to resilience and unwavering commitment, and his insights promise to inspire you to overcome your own challenges and strive for an extraordinary life.

Terry delves into his four foundational truths: the power of controlling your mind, the resilience built from embracing pain, the legacy you leave, and the importance of never surrendering. He recounts a deeply personal moment when a friend invoked the Navy SEALs' 40% rule, helping him tap into hidden reserves of strength during a low point in his cancer fight. This episode emphasizes the value of supportive relationships and the indomitable human spirit, underlined by Ed Milet’s insights on aiming for aspiration and the transformative power of gratitude.

In this heartfelt conversation, Terry also reflects on finding purpose amidst suffering, highlighting his experiences with lung tumors and losing a leg. Drawing parallels between his cancer journey and his time as a hostage negotiator, he underscores the importance of empathy, human connections, and personal growth. Terry's story is filled with poignant moments, like his perseverance through a tough clinical trial and the simple yet profound acts of kindness that sustained him. Tune in to hear how empathy and community can transform adversity into a source of strength and meaning.

Chapters

• 0:00 Patrick Bass and Terry Tucker Show
• 12:08 Four Truths of Resilience and Legacy
• 18:06 Journey to Excellence
• 25:33 Overcoming Fear and Taking Action
• 40:02 Finding Purpose Through Adversity
• 45:50 Empathy and Resilience in Adversity

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:27

Okay, cue everybody. We're going live in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And now live from Fort Smith, arkansas. This is a Planet Wide broadcast courtesy of the World Wide Web and affiliate radio stations across the globe. It's the Patrick Bass Show with your host, Patrick Bass show with your host, Patrick Bass.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Welcome back to the Patrick Bass show on the Vanguard Radio Network. This is Patrick Bass with you, and so glad you're with us on this incredible magic carpet ride into the unknown. We've got a great guest lined up for you, as usual on this episode of the program, and you're going to meet a man who is probably one of the coolest guys I've talked to in quite a while. He's a SWAT hostage negotiator, author, cancer warrior, business owner, public speaker just kind of all over the map. Actually really similar background to mine, with some obvious differences, but he's going to be out on the show here in just a little while.

Speaker 1: 1:31

But before we get to that, I want to remind you to check us out on pwbasscom. Our open lines are currently open and awaiting your toll-free call, so if you'd like to get in on today's action, that number is 855-605-8255. Don't forget we're on Facebook, linkedin, twitter, twitch, youtube If there's a social media channel that we don't know about it, and it's thanks to a great listening audience that we have. But we need to get to that next level, and so we're really counting on you guys to let everybody know if you're liking this show. Chances are your friends are going to like it too, so please share it with them. We're going to meet our guest when we come right back. Stand by, this is the Patrick Bass Show. Don't go anywhere Back. Stand by. This is the Patrick Bass Show.

Speaker 2: 2:30

Don't go anywhere. Don't forget to hit our website at wwwpwbasscom. More of the Patrick Bass Show coming up.

Speaker 3: 2:41

On the battlefield. There's a saying America's military men and women live by Never leave a fallen warrior behind ever. Off the battlefield. Wounded Warrior Project operates with the same goal Wounded Warrior Project we never leave a fallen warrior behind Ever. Learn more about what we do at.

Speaker 2: 3:12

WoundedWarriorProjectorg. Think about the vast sea of news media. You can feel the hot air on your face and smell the bulls**t. Isn't it about time there was someone who was having the difficult conversations and calling them on all their crap? Well, there is, and you found it. This is the Patrick Bass Show no filter, no nonsense. He sugarcoats nothing. We're America. We deserve much better. You deserve the truth, and this is where you'll get it. It's in your face, it's bold and it's for damn sure patriotic. Fasten up that seatbelt and let's do this. This is the Patrick Bass Show and this is Patrick Bass.

Speaker 2: 4:04

All right, welcome back to the program.

Speaker 1: 4:19

We've got Terry Tucker here, our guest for the afternoon, and I think he's got a story that you're going to find extraordinary, and he's also written some books, and one that is, in particular, something I think you're going to really enjoy called Sustainable Excellence Ten Principles to Leading your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life. Welcome to the program, terry Tucker. How are you doing?

Speaker 4: 4:38

I'm great, patrick, thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward to talking with you.

Speaker 1: 4:41

Yeah, me too, Terry. As so often, we got caught up in the pre-show, just started chatting away. I felt like I was talking to somebody I'd known for about 15 years. But bring the audience up to speed. I mean, you are right in the middle of a 12-year battle with cancer. What has that journey taught you about life and strength and vulnerability?

Speaker 4: 5:02

I think it just tells you how much more resilient we really are. I've always said I think we give up, we quit, we let go long before our physical bodies do. And that's one of the biggest things I've learned during this journey is I can do so much more. No matter how much I hurt, no matter how sick I feel, no matter how worn out I am, I can do so much more. And this is 12-plus years, and I was told 12 years ago that I'd be dead in two years, so it's kind of good good to be on this side of the dirt.

Speaker 1: 5:37

Yeah, You're just showing them what's up, Uh. But you, you've had a really diverse career. You were a SWAT hostage negotiator Uh. How in the world did you get into that line of work?

Speaker 4: 5:52

Well, it's interesting because my grandfather you know there's sort of a backstory. If you look at my resume it kind of looks like a Super Bowl went off in the room. You know, and my resume does make sense if you understand the backstory and that was my grandfather was a Chicago police officer from 1924 to 1954. And in 1933, he was actually shot in the line of duty with his own gun. It was not a serious injury, it was shot in the ankle. But my dad, who was an infant at the time, always remembered the stories my grandmother told of that. Knock on the door, Mrs Tucker, grab your son, come with us. Your husband's been shot. So when I expressed an interest in sort of following in my grandfather's footsteps and going into law enforcement, my dad was absolutely not. You're going to college, You're going to major in business, You're going to get out, get a great job, get married, have 2.4 kids and live happily ever after. But that's the life my father wanted me to lead, that's not the life I wanted to lead.

Speaker 4: 6:43

And so my father was dying when I got out of college and I had a choice, could have said sorry, dad, I know you're dying, but I'm going to go do my own thing, blaze my own trail, or, out of love and respect for you, I will do what you want me to do. And so my first two jobs were in business, because that's what my dad wanted me to do. And then, I joke I did what every good son did waited until my father passed away, and then I followed my own dreams.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Well, at least you gave it a college try, right. But I think it is important to follow your dreams. Hey, one thing that really stands out about me, about your grandfather, I mean, that time in Chicago, I mean that was like gangster times, I bet that guy had some stories yeah wow, yeah, and there's of course there's a tie to Hot Springs, arkansas and Chicago, because all of those guys used to like to come down here for the hospitality.

Speaker 1: 7:32

So we've got our own little gangster museum down here. But man, I bet he had some stories. I don't know if you ever got to share them with you, but that would be interesting. So you did what Dad wanted, gave it the college try and then, sadly, he passed and then you chased your heart's desire.

Speaker 4: 7:49

I did, chased your heart's desire. I did. And in all honesty and I think that's one of the things I'm most proud of in my life is that I never let my dream die. You know, I never let my purpose say oh, you know, I was hospital administrator, I could have made. I was making good money eight to five, monday through Friday, and with the support of my wife it was. I want to give all that up and I want to work nights and I want to weekends and I want to be on SWAT and all that. So I also did four and a half years as an undercover narcotics investigator at 6'8". So you can laugh at that one too.

Speaker 1: 8:19

Oh wow, You're 6'8".

Speaker 4: 8:24

I am, or 5'20". However you want to look at it, how do?

Speaker 4: 8:26

you maintain cover when you're over 6 1⁄2 feet tall maintain cover when you're almost, you know, six and a half over six and a half feet tall. Well, you know, I always used to say what what motivates the illicit drug industry and it is an industry is greed. So as long as you have money to buy drugs and that's we were a street level drug unit you know you were going out trying to buy drugs and that's exactly what you would do. It didn't matter what you look like, you'd find somebody to be able to find somebody that would actually sell to you.

Speaker 1: 8:55

So it wasn't that hard Wow. That's funny. You were talking about your purpose in life. Do you think you had found your purpose in life? And obviously you still. I mean, as long as we have life, we have purpose right. So what is your continued purpose in life, since you're no longer a hostage, swat negotiator?

Speaker 4: 9:21

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think a lot of times we talk about purpose in the singular like it's.

Speaker 4: 9:23

It's one thing, and I think, at least for myself, my my life, I think I've had purposes plural. You know, when I was younger I thought my purpose was to be an athlete, and then when I got into law enforcement, I felt that was my purpose. And now, in all honesty, as I'm probably coming towards the end of my life with this cancer journey, I think my purpose has switched again to put as much goodness, positivity, motivation, love back into the world as I possibly can. So yeah, I think right now I'm doing what I'm supposed to do right now.

Speaker 1: 9:54

Yeah, you know, terry, it's so interesting. You said that because you know I had a history also in law enforcement. I've never, to the extent that you did you know it was gosh been out much longer than I was ever in it, you know. But there was a time in my life where I was a scrapper. I was ready to throw down in a moment's notice and I don't know, time just kind of tempered me and I got to the point now where I don't want to fight anybody, I don't want to argue with anybody, I just want to help people, support people and and bring goodness into this world. Are we just getting old? What's our deal, man?

Speaker 4: 10:30

I think we're getting wise to be honest with you. You can have all the knowledge in the world, and that's great, and you can learn from other people's knowledge, but you can't learn from other people's wisdom. That's something you've got to figure out.

Speaker 4: 10:41

It's something you have to decide for yourself. So I think we're just getting wiser. I'm right there with you. I don't want to fight anybody. I mean, I'm 6'8", 240 pounds. I could probably win a lot of fights, except I only have one leg. And you know it's like I don't want to fight you.

Speaker 3: 10:56

I would like to get along with you. I'd like to know you.

Speaker 4: 10:58

I'd like to be able to go deep with you. I was listening to a podcast recently. There's a professor at the University of Chicago, a psychology professor, who does this with his students and himself. His goal is to go out on a bus, get on a bus and, in three questions, be deep with somebody you know. Sit down next to somebody. Hey, how's it going? Question one that's going fine. Question two and I'm just making this up what do you do for a living? Oh, I'm a doctor. Oh, okay. Question three have you always wanted to be a doctor? No, I grew up on a farm, I wanted to be a vet. Or yeah, my dad was a doctor and I wanted to follow in his footsteps. We don't go deep anymore, and I think that's social media. So social media likes us, keeps us on the surface, we don't go deep.

Speaker 1: 11:39

Yeah, we're a culture of superficiality, I think, and that's really the shame, because as soon as you start getting below that surface level, that's where reality is, you know. And, uh, you know, I kind of agree with you, man. I think, if you can go deep with somebody and that's one of the things I really love about this show you know, for an hour a day, five days a week, we're going deep with somebody and it brings a lot of truth, it brings a lot of reality and it opens a lot of eyes. So I really appreciate you being on here. Uh, you, you have a philosophy that you developed called the four truths. What is that?

Speaker 4: 12:14

Yeah, in all honesty, I was on a podcast called the three truths and I thought, well, I better come up with three truths so I can be on the podcast. But I really did. I spent a lot of time thinking about what is foundational for me, what anchors me, and things like that, and I came up with these three truths. And then I added a fourth one because I thought it was that important and I can just give them to you. I've got them on a post-it note here in my office and they're just one sentence each.

Speaker 4: 12:40

The first one is control your mind, or your mind is going to control you. The second one is embrace the pain and the difficulty that we all experience in life and use that pain and difficulty to make you a stronger and more resilient individual. The third one and this is the one that I added, I look at more as a legacy type of truth, and it's this what you leave behind is what you weave in the hearts of other people. And then the last one I think is pretty self-explanatory as long as you don't quit, you can never be defeated, and I refer to those truths as sort of the bedrock of my soul. I just think they're a good place to start to build a quality life off of.

Speaker 1: 13:27

Yeah, and I think those truths were hard learned, weren't they? It sounds like there's a lot of story behind them. Yeah, and I think those truths were hard learned, weren't they? It sounds like there's a lot of story behind them.

Speaker 4: 13:33

Yeah, I've got all kinds of stories from all of them, but yeah, but that goes back to what we were talking about earlier. We're older but we're also wiser, and I think we've learned from the mistakes we've made, and we've also learned from the things that we've done in our lives that we absolutely had a blast doing.

Speaker 1: 13:50

If you were somehow able to be transported back in time as older wiser Terry Tucker and could go talk to a younger version of yourself, what would you tell that person?

Speaker 4: 14:02

Boy, that's a great question. I guess I would say this it's more important who you work with and who you work for than it is the work that you do. Find people that care about you. Find people that are willing to invest in you. Find people that want to see you succeed. Hit your wagon to those people and climb your mountains together.

Speaker 1: 14:28

That's really great advice, and it's kind of like the tribe mentality Surround yourself with people that are going to support and encourage you and uh, and by doing so, you're all going to get to a higher place than any one of you could by yourself. I think that's really good advice. Uh, obviously, resilience is something that's a hallmark of your life. Resilience is something that's a hallmark of your life and there have been times, evidently, in your personal and professional life where you've encountered challenge. Has there ever been a time where you just wanted to give up?

Speaker 4: 15:59

Yeah, yeah, there was.

Speaker 4: 16:01

I mean, through this cancer journey I've had a lot of things happen to me and I remember specifically one time I was laying in the emergency room, my wife was, was by my head and I literally I turned to her, I had tears coming down my cheeks and I said, please just let me go, just let me be out of this, this pain and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4: 16:22

And I remember I have a friend Actually a young man works for my who's a former Navy SEAL, and he calls me on my off weeks of treatment and we talk about a lot of things, but we talk about what the SEALs call their 40% rule, which basically says that if you're at the end of your rope, if you can't go on, if you just don't think you can do one more thing, that you're only at 40% of your maximum and you still have another 60% left in reserve to give to yourself. And I found myself in that moment thinking back his name's, jonathan, thinking about Jonathan and all he's been through in his life, and I'm like, no, no, I'm not done yet, I still have more to give to myself. But yeah, I've absolutely been in those situations where I just I'm really ready to throw in the towel.

Speaker 1: 17:08

Yeah, and then you reached down and tapped that 60%. And then now in hindsight you know, thank God you didn't give up, right.

Speaker 4: 17:16

Yeah, and what a horrible thing to do to my wife to put her in a position to say, hey, let my life be over. She didn't have any control over that, stuff like that, but I just wanted out. I was tired of the pain, I was tired of the frustration, the exhaustion. I just want it out.

Speaker 1: 17:37

Yeah, I think that's where having a support system comes into play and, like you know, like your friend the former SEAL, who could, you know, in a very loving but stern way, kind of kick your butt a little bit you know, terry, what does it mean to you to have an uncommon and extraordinary life.

Speaker 4: 17:59

I think we're all destined for that and so many people never even look at that. They never go down that road. There's an entrepreneur by the name of Ed Milet and the guy he's all over the internet. But I heard him talking one time about the four types of people in the world and he said the know the first group are the unmotivated, and he said that's the vast majority of people you will encounter in your life. And I thought about that. I was like, yeah, in a lot of ways that's true.

Speaker 4: 18:28

The second group he talks about are the motivated, where he talks about it being a carrot and stick approach to life. If I do this, I will get that. He talks about it as being kind of low level, but it works very effectively for people to have really good lives. And then the third group he talks about are the inspirational people. Inspirational people that word inspiration comes from two words in spirit. If you're an inspirational person, you move people with your energy. And then the last group he talks about are the aspirational people, where people aspire to be like you. And sometimes if I'm giving a talk with a group, depending on the group, I'll tell that story and then it'll be like all right show of hands. How many people are unmotivated? Nobody raises their hand. Nobody believes that they are unmotivated at all. But if you believe my land and you and I are old enough.

Speaker 4: 19:20

I mean, there's a lot of people that just kind of muddle through life. They never, ever think what it means to be great in their lives. I want to be an aspirational people an aspirational person. And I think part of that is is really what it means to be uncommon and extraordinary.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Yeah, and for what it's worth. Terry, I think I think you've reached that goal. I think you are uh aspirational for many people, uh, just by the extraordinary life that you have led and continue to lead, I think I think, uh, there's a lot of people that would draw strength from that and, uh, and I think that's why it's important, and that's why I wanted to have you on the show, because the story that you have, I believe, can serve to motivate the unmotivated and inspire those, and even someone could look at that situation and go you know, geez, I want to be like that, that's my goal and that's what I'm aiming for. So you know, you are, in every sense of the word, fulfilling your purpose in life, and for that I applaud you, sir.

Speaker 4: 20:16

Well, thank you very much for saying those kind of words. I really appreciate it you, sir.

Speaker 1: 20:20

Well, thank you very much for saying those kind of words. I really appreciate it. Yeah, you bet, and that kind of actually leads me to my next point about how gratitude plays an important part of our life, especially when you're dealing with a difficult situation. What's your perspective on that?

Speaker 4: 20:35

I love challenges, I love adversity. Because I've learned to use them to make me better and because I get better from those things, I am grateful that they occur. I mean, we don't get better by doing things that are easy. We get better by stepping outside our comfort zones and doing things that make us uncomfortable. And I try every day of my life. So I'll offer this to your audience. And I try every day of my life. So I'll offer this to your audience Every day of your life. Do one thing that scares you, that makes you nervous, that makes you uncomfortable. That's potentially embarrassing, it doesn't have to be a big thing, but if you do those small things every day, when the big disasters in life hit us and Patrick, they hit all of us.

Speaker 4: 21:17

You know that I mean. You lose somebody who's close to you. You hit us and, Patrick, they hit all of us. You know that I mean you lose somebody who's close to you. You get unexpected, let go from your job. You find out you have a chronic or a terminal illness.

Speaker 1: 21:31

You will be so much more resilient to handle those things than people who never step outside those comfort zones. Yeah, and don't you also agree, terry, that it's in that place of uncomfortability where our greatest growth potential exists?

Speaker 4: 21:42

Oh, absolutely. Again, going back to you never know what you're capable of. There's a great story. It's a true story. I happened back in the 1950s with a professor at Johns Hopkins University. He was doing experiments with rats. He put rats in a tank of water that was over their head and he wanted to see how long the average rat could tread water. And the average rat treaded water for about 15 minutes. And just as those rats were getting ready to sink and drown, he reached in, grabbed them, pulled them out, dried them off and let them rest for a while. And then he took those exact same rats and put them back in that exact same tank of water. And the second time around, on average, those rats treaded water for 60 hours.

Speaker 1: 22:31

Wow.

Speaker 4: 22:31

Now think about it. First time, 15 minutes, it's not like you're going to flunk a test or your business is going to go under it, you're going to die. And the second time, around 60 hours. Which taught me two things. Number one, the importance of hope in our lives, that if we know we're doing the right thing maybe not today, maybe not this week, maybe not even this year, but there's a good chance somewhere down the road we'll get to where we want to be. And again, the second kind of going back to the 40% rule. The second thing it's taught me is just how much more our physical bodies can handle than we ever thought they could.

Speaker 1: 23:02

Yeah, it kind of reminds me of that adage act like you've been there before.

Speaker 4: 23:06

I love that.

Speaker 1: 23:08

And that story reminds me and I wish I could remember the name of the movie, but it was this really inspirational sports-themed movie and the coach was pushing one of his players who had a lot of potential but wasn't really applying themselves. And the story goes anyway, they blindfolded the player and he was supposed to carry someone across the finish line or something to that extent. And the guy had passed the finish line yards earlier, but because he was blindfolded, he didn't know where he was at and the coach kept pushing him. Just a few more yards. You're almost there, just keep going. You've almost got it. And when he finally did drop from exhaustion, he realized that he was probably perhaps 50 yards beyond his goal and it was at that moment that he realized, wow, I really there are things that I can do beyond what I think my physical limitations are. And so often, you know, that story would resonate with me because it makes me realize, terry, that our minds are sometimes our worst enemy when it comes to our perceived limitations.

Speaker 4: 24:12

Yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to that first truth I talked about controlling your mind, or your mind is going to control you. I mean, we know this. I mean we get to a point where you know, oh, this hurts, it's uncomfortable, and that's your brain saying stop it, knock it off. But we also know, by looking at marathon runners marathon runners talk about, they get to a point where they call it the wall or they hit the wall where I just can't go on, I can't, you know. And they start listening to their brains oh, this hurts, this is uncomfortable, stop doing. You know. But if you can push past that, if you can push through that wall, you come out the other side with almost a second wind, with more energy, and that should show people exactly how much more you can handle. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think we all have a breaking point.

Speaker 4: 24:58

I think that breaking point is so much farther down the road than we ever give ourselves credit for.

Speaker 1: 25:03

Yeah, I think you're right. And uh what, what a testament your life has been to that, isn't it? Um, in your book sustainable excellence, you outline 10 principles, uh, for living a life of excellence. Can you briefly kind of go over those and maybe talk about some of them that you think are the most challenging or the most difficult to implement?

Speaker 4: 25:28

Yeah, I'll give them to you real quick. So principle number one is enjoy your life. Principle number two and I'm going to talk about I think I really want to talk about this one is most people think with their fears and their insecurities instead of using their minds. Number three is you were born to live an uncommon and extraordinary life. Number four always remain curious and ask questions. Number five you are the person you're looking to become. Number six put your God and your family before everything else. Number seven be part of something that's bigger than yourself. Number eight fail often, especially when you're young. Number nine listen more than you talk. And number 10 love is the most important word in any language and I, you know, I think.

Speaker 4: 26:29

Number two most people think with their fears and their insecurities. Patrick, I've done that in my life. I can't tell you how many times and I'm not, I'm not proud of it. You know. It's one of those things where you know you want to start a business or you want to get involved in a project or date somebody in your life. You kind of hold back. You're like, oh, wait a minute, maybe I'm not smart enough, maybe I don't have enough information, or what will people think about me, you know, if I fail. That's thinking with our fears and our insecurities. That's not thinking with our fears and our insecurities. That's not thinking with our minds. And I remember somebody I wish I knew who said this. But somebody said the richest real estate in the world are our cemeteries, because they're areas rich in businesses never started, relationships never pursued, books never written. When it's your time to go to the cemetery, don't have those regrets. When it's your time to go to the cemetery, don't have those regrets.

Speaker 1: 27:18

Yeah, that's extraordinarily deep. I think the ones that resonate the most with me are, you know, enjoy life, remain curious, put God and family before everything else. I mean, you know, it's almost like the manual we all should have gotten when we were born. You know just a lot of good, solid advice that so often escapes us and I don't know why. And you know I'm not going to make judgments on a particular generation.

Speaker 1: 27:50

But when you said, fail off, and especially when you're young, I see so many people, particularly young people, who have never really experienced any failure. Maybe they were shielded or overprotected or whatever the situation is, and you don't want to be the first time you ever fail when you get out into the real world, and for parents who are doing that, it's a disservice you need to let. I think you need to let your kids fail, like you said, fail often and do it in a controlled environment that you can protect them from any real harm. But they need to understand that. You know life is rough and there's going to be obstacles and you want to build resilient people and I guess that's kind of what your point is right.

Speaker 4: 28:43

Yeah, I mean, it really is. I heard a guy by the name of Jeff Wetzler talk about how and I did this in my life, you very well may have as well we sort of set these arbitrary sort of mileposts. Well, at the time of 28 years old, I want to be making and I'm just making this $100,000 a year, and by the time I'm 34 years old, I want to be married and have two kids, whatever. And we set these things up and he came up with a really good way of looking at life. And he said in your 20s. He said look at your life in decades.

Speaker 4: 29:13

So in your 20s, do everything, do anything that interests you, make all kinds of mistakes, totally screw up, but learn from those things. And then he says in your 30s, find those two or three things that really resonate with you, that you really enjoy, that are really part of your life. And then he says in your 40s, find that one thing when you're more established, when you're more mature, when your prefrontal cortex is connected and everything like that, and dig into that in your 40s. And then he said in your 50s and 60s, you can reap the rewards. You can reap the benefits of what you did in your 20s, 30s and 40s, and I love looking at life that way, as opposed to these arbitrary mileposts that we just stick up there and then like, if I'm 28 and I'm only making $50,000 a year, somehow I'm a failure. No, what mistakes are you making? What are you doing? Get out, enjoy your life. Life is about living. It's not about getting something at the end of the rainbow.

Speaker 1: 30:11

Yeah, and it's also not about comparing yourself to everyone else. I mean, in my quote, day job, I deal in education and I see a lot of graduates and near graduates who are, you know, looking at people who have been in the industry for decades and they try to compare themselves or think they're going to start at that spot. You know they're wanting to get in that space, reap the rewards phase before they ever pay their dues, and it's just not realistic and ultimately they're very disappointed and sometimes even quit because of it. But you do have to pay your dues in life, not just in career but in life. And like you said, terry, you got to make some mistakes and kind of experience things before you know what you're going to be good at, and then narrow that down to one thing and then get really good at it and reap the rewards, just like you said. I think that's great advice.

Speaker 4: 31:06

Yeah, I do too. I mean, we're afraid. I love the story. Jesse Itzler may still be part owner of the Atlanta Hawks, the National Basketball Association, and he's married to a woman by the name of Sarah Blakely, and Sarah Blakely started a woman's undergarment company called Spanx. It's a multimillion dollar company now, but Itzler tells the story that when she started that business, she started it with one prototype and $5,000. And she had been and you'll love this a door-to-door fax salesperson. I don't even think we use faxes anymore.

Speaker 1: 31:41

No.

Speaker 4: 31:41

But that's what she had done and the point he was making about that was if she would have waited until she knew about HR and marketing and distribution and manufacturing, he said I guarantee somebody else would have taken that idea and run with it. So, wherever you are, if you want to do something, if you want to start something, if you want to get involved with somebody, start where you are. Figure it out as you go along. Again what we were talking about before surround yourself with good people that will help you to get where you want to be, but don't wait until everything lines up. There's no perfect job, no perfect company, no perfect person. Jump in where you are. There's no perfect job, no perfect company, no perfect person. Jump in where you are. Figure it out as you go along.

Speaker 1: 32:20

Do you think that? Second principle most people think with fear is what is limiting them? Oh, I think fear is one of the biggest reasons we don't do things.

Speaker 4: 32:29

You know, ooh, that's scary. I'm afraid for a bunch of reasons, and especially social media. I think social media you go out there and you mess up and then everybody comments on it, which I always thought was fascinating. Why do you care what people think who have never even attempted the things that you've failed at already in your life? Why do you care what those people?

Speaker 4: 32:50

think. Don't worry about what they think, Get out there. I love the quote from Nelson Mandela, the former president of South Africa, who said I never lose. I either learn or I win. Look at life that way.

Speaker 1: 33:03

That's a good point. Yeah, I think people and I don't know if they're wearing their feelings on their sleeve or we're just become so self-conscious that the minute we get any negative feedback we just kind of shut down. And I think you know we're kind of you and I are kind of old school, but I'm hoping that those are principles that you know the next generation will pick up. Who cares what anybody else thinks? Man, go do your thing. And yeah, you're going to make mistakes, you're going to scuff your knees, you're going to probably bleed a little bit and there's going to be good days and bad days. But go do your thing. And I think getting started very often is the most difficult step.

Speaker 4: 33:43

Yeah, and that's why I think, going back to that story about Sarah Blakely and Spank, start where you are, don't wait, well, I've got to get this or I've got that. And I'm sure you've seen that and I know I've seen it when I was in business where people couldn't pull the trigger. It's like, no, I need one more thing, I need one more, you know, piece of information or piece of advice or something like that. No, just start, go, start now and figure it out as you go along. And I think that's the misconception people have about life. They think that life starts when you get to the end of the rainbow or that you get to the end of that pot of gold. Life is everything in between that got you to the top of the mountain.

Speaker 1: 34:23

Yeah, and the other thing that I would add in that same vein of thought, terry, is you know, there's never the perfect time, right, there's always going to be reasons why you shouldn't or can't, or, you know, probably should wait. Who cares, you know? I mean like, like, like you just said, you know, if she had waited, uh, to start Spanx, someone, you know, the market, somebody else would have filled that need. Uh, there's no time like the present, you know, and uh, and you know there's. There's also the philosophy that nobody's promised tomorrow. We've got to really take and live every day to its fullest. We don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, if we're going to ever be here. You might have a car wreck, there might be a natural disaster God forbid something even worse but it's difficult to say. So, the time that you have, embrace it, take it. Take it for what it's worth, you know. Just take it for a ride. That's, that's my advice, uh, and it sounds like something you would agree with oh, that's great advice.

Speaker 4: 35:27

That's I mean what you just said.

Speaker 1: 35:28

Is is spot on uh, terry, I know you've got uh uh your book and you've you. You do you do speaking uh. How can folks find out more about you? Uh, find your books and, you know, just dig into more of your backstory in life.

Speaker 4: 35:45

Yeah, the books are available anywhere. You can get a book online Amazon, barnes and Noblecom, apple iBooks. Uh, I have a website, slash um blog called motivationalivational Check. That comes back from our police days as well. I have recommendations for books to read, videos to watch. Every day I put up a thought for the day. With that thought usually comes a comment about how maybe you could apply that in your life. That's all at motivationalcheckcom.

Speaker 1: 36:18

I feel like we've kind of rushed through this. We've got plenty of time. I want to make sure we talk about whatever you want to talk about. We're certainly not rushed for time. Where do you want to go from here?

Speaker 4: 36:31

Let's go to cancer.

Speaker 1: 36:32

Okay, let's talk about that.

Speaker 4: 36:35

That big elephant in the room, yeah, yeah 2012 girls high school basketball coach in Texas when I have a callous break open on the bottom of my left foot, right below my third toe, and initially don't think much of it because, as a coach, you're on your feet a lot.

Speaker 4: 36:52

Right but after a few weeks of it not healing, I went to see a podiatrist the foot doctor friend of mine and he took an x-ray and said Terry, I think you have a cyst in there and I can cut it out. And he did and he showed it to me. It was just a little gelatin sack with some white fat in it, no dark spots, no blood, nothing that gave either one of us concern. But fortunately, or unfortunately, he sent it off to pathology. And then two weeks later I get the call from him and, patrick, you can imagine what this is like. The more difficulty he's having telling me what's going on, the more frightened I am becoming, until finally he just lays it out for me. He said Terry, I've been a doctor for 25 years and I have never seen the form of cancer that you have.

Speaker 4: 37:35

You have an incredibly rare form of melanoma that appears on the bottom of the feet or the palms of the hands. And because my cancer was so uncommon, he recommended I go to MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston probably one of the better hospitals for treating cancer and be treated. And I did. They took off the bottom of my foot, they took all the lymph nodes out in my groin. And then they said you better get your affairs in order. You'll be dead in two years. And I thought well, you gave me a death sentence. Maybe I can turn that death sentence into a life sentence.

Speaker 1: 38:09

That's heavy, and that was 12 years ago. You said 2012.

Speaker 4: 38:14

12 plus years ago.

Speaker 1: 38:15

yeah, Wow, okay. So where are things at now? And I know you said you're uh, basically stable.

Speaker 4: 38:31

At this point I am stable. Um, I ended up in 2018. I had my leg or my excuse me, my foot amputated and then, right in the middle of covid, I found out that my entire lower leg was full of cancer. So, so I had to have my leg amputated above the knee, and I still have tumors in my lungs right now.

Speaker 4: 38:45

But the clinical trial drug that I'm on now, which is really kind of a fascinating drug, it does nothing to the cancer. But the way cancer proliferates in your body is that it secretes a protein or an enzyme to hide it from your immune system, and what this drug does is go in and wipe. Is that it secretes a protein or an enzyme to hide it from your immune system, and what this drug does is go in and wipe out that protein or that enzyme. So my own immune system, just like if you had a cold or a flu virus, could say hey, wait a minute, this doesn't belong here, we need to attack it. And my own immune system has been keeping those tumors stable for almost four years now.

Speaker 1: 39:17

Wow, okay, and so you're on this drug trial and, by all accounts, it seems to be doing its job. I mean, you're stable and you've lived well beyond the two years they gave you and you're still making your mark on the world.

Speaker 4: 39:35

Yeah, I am, and I feel very fortunate because I mean the people who were on the clinical trial with me when I first started unfortunately have all passed away. The clinical trial itself ended two years ago, but because I'm still having success with the drug, the company is allowing University of Colorado hospitals, where I'm treated, to continue to offer it to me, to continue to give it to me in that. So I feel very lucky. I remember when I had my leg amputated and I had these tumors in my lungs, my oncologist showed me my CAT scan and, patrick, I have no medical background, I don't know how to read a CAT scan, but you know I could kind of look at it and be like, oh, that sure doesn't look like it belongs there. You at it and be like, oh, that sure doesn't look like it belongs there.

Speaker 4: 40:24

You know, I had these big tumors in my lungs, I had fluid all around the pleural spaces and I remember looking at my oncologist and saying how is I alive? And I will never forget this till the day I die. He put his head down, he shook his head, no, and then he looked up at me and he said I don't know, because you shouldn't have been. Which said to me God's not done with me yet you know when I die, where I die, how I die way above my pay grade. Spend more time focusing on the actual living part, not so much worried about the dying part.

Speaker 1: 40:48

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean it's certainly in his hands, terry, and you know you have my prayers and you know when somebody is in that kind of situation, I mean, what are the things that a person can say that lifts you up and helps you? Because I'm overcome with this wave of emotion right now and I'm torn between I don't want to make the situation worse and I don't want the guy to feel like he's pitiful or anything. I'm just trying to be real here. What's the best way to respond?

Speaker 4: 41:21

I mean I, I love it when people tell me that you know they love me and you know, guys, we don't talk about love especially cops, you know, cops don't talk about love. We don't talk about that kind of stuff, but you know it, it really is. It really is the connections you know. I mean we talked about going deep. You know earlier and you know 100 years from now, patrick, nobody's going to remember. You and I were even here.

Speaker 4: 41:42

But, one of the nurses who cares for me is a former hospice nurse and for those of your audience who don't know about hospice, it's people who take care of others at the end of their life and she recommended a book to me called Imagine Heaven and it's a book about people who have near-death experiences. A lot of good information in it. But one of the big takeaways from that book that I had was, no matter who the person having the near-death experience saw during that experience whether it was Jesus or an angel or a saint or a friend or a relative, almost everybody got asked one question how do you care for my people? In other words, how do we care for each other? You know, how do we deal with each other, how do we connect with each other? That was one of the things when I was a hostage negotiator that we were taught.

Speaker 4: 42:31

We used to use what was called tactical empathy. I think you can get rid of the word tactical and just talk about empathy. In other words, if I was negotiating with you, patrick, patrick, help me to understand where you're coming from, and again, the important word there is understand. It wasn't a great. I mean, if you were a homicide suspect, I wasn't going to agree that what you did was right, but by understanding. Understanding builds trust, and trust as a negotiator led me to a point where I could hopefully get you out safely.

Speaker 1: 43:02

Yeah, in a way it kind of reminds me of that story in the Bible where, if you're familiar with it, jesus asked Peter three times if he loved him, and each time he said yes, you know all things, lord, you know that I love you. And his response was feed my sheep. In other words, take care of one another, love one another. And I guess what really strikes me is there's nothing in the world that could really get your priorities in line overnight other than something like this right.

Speaker 4: 43:36

Yeah right, yeah, I mean. But at the same time I've had people say to me you know, if you could live your life over again without cancer, would you do it? And Patrick, in all honesty, I don't think I would. I think cancer has made me a better human being. I mean, I've had body parts lopped off and all that kind of stuff, but I honestly believe cancer's made me a better human being and I've learned a lot through this disease. I mean number one I don't think you really know yourself until you've been tested by some form of adversity in your life. And number two cancer's made me a better human being. It's just made me focus on the things that are important in life. It's not money, it's not power, it's not influence. It's not power, it's not influence, it's the relationships that we have with each other.

Speaker 1: 44:23

Yeah, and, and I and my hope is that by others hearing your story, they can come to that realization too, without having to go through something like that. Uh, you know, kind of uh, learn, learn from, from your life experience, if it were possible to do that. And you're right, terry, it really comes down to you know, and you said something. In a hundred years nobody's going to remember you or me. That may be true, but I want you to know something. I'm going to remember you for the rest of my life. Man, this has not been a superficial connection by any means, and you know, if you don't think talking to somebody can humble you, then you haven't been talking to the right people, because this is an incredibly humbling experience for me and one that I'm never going to forget.

Speaker 4: 45:15

Well, thank you, I appreciate that. I mean, I think we're we're kindred spirits just on what we've done in our background.

Speaker 1: 45:20

So yeah, Um. So you know, you kind of brought us to present day. Uh, you've got plans, you've got future plans. I mean, you're not giving up. You, you consider yourself a cancer warrior and uh, and you know, so this is something that you're actively in battle with. It's, you know, a warrior speaks to the concept of an adversary, and so this is something you're fighting every day.

Speaker 4: 45:50

Yeah, every day. And I go to the hospital every three weeks, Monday through Friday, to be given this clinical trial drug. I have a very terrible reaction to it. I shake, I throw up, I have all kinds of ugly things, but the idea is you keep coming back, You're not going to beat me, You're not going to, and one of the nurses once said to me she's like Terry, the reason we all love you and I don't mean to sound conceited is because you never quit, you never give up. We always know you're going to be here, no matter how bad it hurts and how much you know you don't want to be here.

Speaker 4: 46:25

And don't get me wrong. I mean, Patrick, I don't like this. I mean, you know there's no S on my chest. I do not have a cape and fly around with magical powers. You know I am not Superman. I get down, I cry, I feel sorry for myself, but when I do that I find that I'm looking inward. You know, woe is me. This is terrible. You know, feel sorry for me and I find a real easy way to get out of that. It's just what we were talking about before Go help somebody else.

Speaker 1: 46:52

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 46:52

Go find somebody else at the hospital hey, how's it going? I mean, I remember when we were swine negotiators we were taught about mirror neurons in our brain. So if I smile, and I smile at you, you have mirror neurons that are going to be like oh, he's smiling at me and you're going to smile, whether you realize it or not.

Speaker 1: 47:10

That's right.

Speaker 4: 47:11

That same kind of thing. Go smile at somebody.

Speaker 1: 47:23

Go ask them how they're doing. Go ask them if they want to have a cup of coffee. Now, all of a sudden, the focus is not on you. The focus is on I'm helping somebody else. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 47:31

And I get that. That's kind of your mantra, that's kind of like one of your guiding principles. I mean it is. I wrote Sustainable Excellence. I've probably given away more copies than I've sold and it was never about making money or getting famous. It was about how can I help, how can I make a difference in people's lives. That's really what I want to do. I don't want to be famous, I don't want to be rich. I just want to tell my story and hopefully make a positive difference in another human being's life.

Speaker 1: 47:57

Yeah, you know, and that's the most noble pursuit I think any any human could have would be to improve the life of one other person. Yeah, I mean, if we, if we did that as a, as a society, what a different world we would live in.

Speaker 4: 48:16

Wouldn't it? Can you imagine? Yeah, I mean and that's what you know, when I talked about tactical empathy, the empathy thing you know, go ask people you know. Help me to understand you again, I may not agree with you, that's okay, but if I can understand you and you can understand me, we're going to get a whole lot further, farther than if you're screaming at me and I'm screaming at you and we're doing a lot of screaming these days isn't that the truth?

Speaker 1: 48:41

I mean it's, it's, it's I guess it's a, it's a time in history that is, it's very confusing and perplexing. Uh, and I think that emphasizes the need, more than ever, for that kind of empathetic response, realizing that you know a lot of people are in a lot of tough situations and there needs to be some understanding between all of us. And you know the little town that I live in. It's full of road ragers and I've never understood that really, because it's absolutely ridiculous. It's a good way to get into a lot of trouble and even probably get yourself killed sometimes.

Speaker 1: 49:22

And I'm like you're getting that angry over traffic. I mean there could be so many other things in life. And I know everybody's got something going on and there's a reason for everything. I get all that, I know all that, but at the end of the day, it doesn't even matter what is important, like you said, family connections lifting each other up, and I hope that as a society there's going to be a few people that can grab a hold of that truth and start implementing it in a real way. It won't take a lot of people to make a positive impact on the world. You know, whole societies and systems have been changed by just a few percentage of people.

Speaker 4: 50:03

Yeah, I mean, you're right, I want to tell you a story about a nurse who was taking care of me and a young woman about 25, was already a nurse but was learning how to do things on the unit where I was being cared for. And about six months later she was caring for me by herself and she came in and she said Tara, I want to tell you a story, but I'm a little uncomfortable telling it to you. And Patrick, I didn't know how to respond to that. I said well, I hope you decide you want to tell me the story. And she's in and out for the next couple of hours giving me medication and finally comes in, sits down. She's like all right, here's the story.

Speaker 4: 50:37

She said when I first met you, I was going to get out of nursing. I had a very good friend of mine pass away. I was in a really dark place. I talked to my family, I was going to quit nursing and I was going to go to work for Amazon. And she said and then I met you and I see what you go through every day when you come for treatment.

Speaker 4: 50:54

And I went back in the file and I read everything you've been through during this 12 year battle. And she said when I finished reading your story, I knew I was where I was supposed to be Now. If she would have never told me that story, I would have had no idea that my life had had such a positive impact on her. So for your audience that's listening to us, there are people out there, I can promise you, that are watching how you handle the adversity and the difficulty in your life and would give almost everything they have just to walk five minutes in your shoes. So don't think your life doesn't matter. I can promise you it absolutely does.

Speaker 1: 51:31

I completely agree, terry, and that's an excellent point. We are now coming up to our time and I just want to again thank you for spending an hour with us on the Patrick Bass Show. We're going to put all of your resources, as we always do for all our guests, on our guest resource page, because I think the message you're bringing to the world is that important that it needs to be told over and over again by you. So keep doing what you're doing, terry. Keep fighting.

Speaker 4: 52:06

Well, Patrick, thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed talking with you.

Speaker 1: 52:09

Thanks so much. Just hang on after we disconnect and we'll trade some information For everyone else. Thanks again for listening. Catch us tomorrow on the Patrick Bass Show. We're going to have another. Wow, we're going to have another great guest. I don't think it's going to top this one, but it's going to be a great show and I hope you don't miss it. Thanks for listening and until tomorrow, keep the blue side up. We'll catch you then, take care.

Speaker 2: 52:31

Thanks for listening to the Patrick Bass Show. The Patrick Bass Show is copyright 2024. All rights reserved. Patrick's passion is to open up any and all conversations, because in this day and age the snowflakes are scared to get real. We'll fly that flag till the very end, that we can promise you. Keep updated by liking our Facebook page at Real Patrick Bass. For more information, visit us on the web at wwwpwbasscom. Thanks for listening and tune in next time for more Real Talk on the Patrick Bass Show.